I get a lot of questions from customers about the “new” ATF ruling regarding pistol-grip-only (PGO) firearms with 14″ barrels that aren’t considered NFA items.
Well, first off, let me say, it’s not a new ruling. It’s the same position that ATF has always taken regarding PGO firearms that fire a fixed shotgun shell that have NEVER had a buttstock attached to them—they’re NOT shotguns! They’re simply firearms. As such, they don’t necessarily need to have 18″+ barrels on them to remain out of the purview of the NFA.
You see, the very definition of a “shotgun” requires that it be “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder…” Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they can’t be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they can’t be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they aren’t shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here.
PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also can’t be defined as AOWs. That’s because the term “any other weapon” (AOW) means “any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person…” And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″. Read the full definition of an AOW here.
More on the subject is available in these two letters to Len Savage—the guy who will be making a lot of these non-NFA firearms in the coming months and years:
- July 20, 2010 letter from NFA Tech Branch to Mr. Len Savage
- October 27, 2010 letter from NFA Tech Branch to Mr. Len Savage
- Page 1 of third letter
- Page 2 of third letter
All that said, I’m not a firearms attorney. And I’m not offering legal advice here. I am simply relating things the way I understand them. Be sure you check with all the appropriate agencies.
Now, a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 500 with a 14″ barrel and the Raptor Grip installed measures 26.5″ in overall length (measured parallel to the bore).
–Marty
I have a 500a JIC 2, Pistol grip, 18.5 from the factory. Will i need everything on the parts list or will I be able to use anything off mine now.
Hi Robert,
Thank you for writing. Because of the way Mossberg configures the front end, you will need everything on the list.
Thank you again,
Marty
Just called the ATF office in my home state, this seemed a little too good to be true, but after cutting through some red tape and explaining a couple key points, I was told that as long as the shotgun never had a stock, it couldnt have been designed to be fired from the shoulder, thus, not a shotgun, and it would fall into the category of a pistol.
Any idea if there are mariner equivalent parts for the 14″ barrel and magazine?
Can we still order these Mossbergs thru Mr savage Just call him to place a order? I would like to order one if we still can!
Yes, you should still be able to order the front ends directly from Mossberg. However, be prepared to wait approximately six to eight weeks—last I heard. Len Savage may have them in stock. I’d check with him first.
[...] on, the guy even he's links to meters he wrote to the ATF about this particular shotgun build. http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 __________________ "DON'T TREAD ON ME…..OR I'LL SHOOT [...]
I have a Mossberg gun lock and I’m happy to have it ($40.00) It works perfect for me. Next to it I keep a steel safe with a yepkad to open it without a key. Inside it I keep the KEY for the Mossberg gun lock. On top of the safe is a flashlight for night access.I also conceal the entire thing (in the room it’s installed). Very good video, especialy if you have kids. BTW, I keep my gun loaded with three rounds, the first to fire wil be a heavy hunting load (#2) next is buckshot, next is
Was the shotgun’s barrel shown in the photo “sawed off” buy its owner to this length?
The firearm shown features a factory Mossberg 14″ front end.
Am I to understand from the letters that this firearm by itself is NOT an AOW or a SBS, but only as long as it’s not concealed on your person?
Yes!
Thank you for writing in,
Marty
Loved your freedom rant. Keep it up brother. Also, don’t be lazy; get a pump mossy. Nothing stops a bad guy in their tracks like the sound of someone racking a pump. Just sayin’.
How can we contact len savage about ordering thru him?
You can contact Len Savage at Historic Arms LLC. His phone number is 706-675-0818. Great guy to deal with.
cool thanks, so we can order it straight from len with the raptor grip installed already correct?
thanks again for the info.
Yes, you can. Just give Len Savage a call. Best regards, Marty
Hello- First off, great looking product! My question is, why do you think Mossberg and the like are not producing models like this “from the factory”? Based on some of their current offerings, they don’t seem too worried about being “politically correct”. Has the above shotgun (RG500.11.jpg) been specifically approved by the ATF?
Also, is it feasible a class3 dealer could get an AOW 14″ pistol grip model from the factory, have the dealer instal the grip you offer (bringing the length over 26″) and not have to deal with the NFA paperwork?
Thank you for the compliments. I’m not 100% sure why Mossberg and others aren’t yet producing 26.5″ OAL firearms like the ones shown on my website. I imagine it has a lot to do with what I’ll term “corporate inertia.” It usually takes a big company like Mossberg quite a while to move on a new idea. Big companies typically aren’t “first movers” or “early adopters” either. They will sit back and let smaller businesses like Historic Arms (Len Savage’s business) prove that there is a market there first. Then they may will possibly catch up someday.
“Approved” is something that’s pretty tough to pin the ATF down on. The configuration shown is “approved” in so much that the ATF has stated in multiple opinion letters that it doesn’t fall within the purview of the NFA. I have my own personal letter from them as well, which isn’t posted.
I imagine that your AOW scenario would be feasible. I would, however, suggest just purchasing the 26.5″ OAL models directly from Len Savage.
How does this correspond with state laws? Specifically here in Texas where the Penal Code lists both the 26″ overall length but also the 18″ barrel length? I love the idea of the non-N.F.A 14″ inch barrel on a Mossberg, but I’m not sure about the state interpretation.-Dan
Hi Dan,
Thanks for writing. Many states’ firearm laws echo the federal laws. However, people should definitely check their state laws before modifying their firearms in any way. Also, you would have to look into whether or not a PGO firearm is even considered a “shotgun” in Texas. It may just be classified a “firearm,” as on the federal level.
–Marty
Dan,
I live in Texas also, and the laws are a little hard to understand. The 18 inch barrel is for a shotgun and only shotguns. Texas law mirrors federal law, and a pistol grip shotgun that comes from the factory with only the pistol grip and no butt stock is classified as a firearm, not a shotgun. Here in Texas they are sold like handguns, the box is marked 21 yrs or older. But anyway I’m just another guy giving advice, however, I do own a 14 inch 12-gauge firearm. What I did is contact a class 3 builder (paladin armory) and he built it for me. I had to supply the gun, with a letter from Mossberg saying it was shipped from factory as a pistol grip only firearm, and he verified that it would be legal here in Texas. This link and down about the middle of the page, he shows this gun that’s pictured above. Bill is a good man, and answered a lot of my questions. Ya might want to contact him. anyway here is the link.
http://paladinarmory.com/SBSAOW.htm#Any Other Weapon (AOW)
I built an SBS a couple years ago. It’s funny that with all of the research I did back then on the subject, this never came up. I do have a question that perhaps someone can answer. If a pistol gripped shotgun were bought used, is there a way to verify if it is a “Factory” PGO shotgun?
Yes, call or email Mossberg. That’s exactly what I did to verify that the used 500A I bought shipped from the factory with only a pistol grip.
–Marty
[...] more at shockwavetechnologies [...]
[...] 14 inch 12ga shotgun that is not an NFA item. [...]
[...] 14 inch 12ga shotgun that is not an NFA item. [...]
In the ATF letter, the sample (Mossberg Cruiser) was originally manufactured with a pistol grip. Does the AOW apply to a Mossberg originally manufactured with a shoulder stock?
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for commenting. Yes, as I understand it, the firearm has to originally ship from the factory with ONLY a pistol grip—and it can NEVER have had a buttstock attached to it—in order for the cited ATF letters to apply. If the pistol-grip firearm is ever built under the magic 26″ overall length number, it would become an AOW. If it EVER had a buttstock on it and sported a barrel under 18″, then it would be classified a SBS.
Thanks again for writing,
Marty